Oshos interaction with Hindus
In Jaipur there was a Hindu conference and one of the shankaracharyas
. There are four shankaracharyas in India and they are equivalent to the pope; each one ruling one directionfor the four directions, four shankaracharyas. One of the shankaracharyas belonged to Jaipur, he was born in Jaipur. He was basically an astrologer, a great scholar, so when one shankaracharya died, he was chosen to be the shankaracharya of Jaganath Puri.
I had known him before he was a shankaracharya and this conference was the first time that I had met him since he had become the shankaracharya. I asked him, "Now you must have become infallible. And I know you perfectly wellbefore you were not. Can you tell me on what date, at what time you became infallible?"
He said, "Don't ask inconvenient questions in front of others. Now I am a shankaracharya and I am supposed to be infallible."
I said, "Supposed to be?"
He said, "That is for your information. If you ask me in public, I am infallible." ignor11
You will be surprised to know that in the twentieth century, one of the Hindu leadersthe most respected Hindu leader, Swami Karpatriwas teaching. I was present in the meeting, and I had to contradict him and I created thousands of enemies because of that. A new dam was being got ready just a few miles away, and this place was going to be the most benefited because of the dam, because their lands were dry and the rains were not certain, and they would be getting as much water as they wanted. And what the man was saying to them was, "Don't accept that water, because before giving you the water they take the electricity out of it."
Now, to the people he was saying that that water is impotent; its whole potential has been taken out. "It is dangerous for you to take that waterrefuse." And the people looked convinced, because without education they don't understand that electricity is not something you take out of the water, it is not something like sexual potentiality that you can take out of a man and he becomes impotent. But this simile convinced them, and they were raising their hands in support.
I had to stand up and I asked him, "Do you understand what you are saying? And what do you understand about electricity? What do you understand when electricity is produced by a hydro-electric plant?" And I told the people, "The only argument against this man will be to this year accept the water and see your crops. Those crops will prove this man your enemy. There is no other way. If crops don't come, if you drink the water and the thirst does not go, then of course he is right." He was very angry; he was so angry he wrote a whole book against me about everything.
These people are responsible for poverty, for dying children; and all the religions of the world have been preaching poverty in some way or other throughout their whole history..
I want to change this whole approach. I'm all for comforts, luxury, richness, wealth, technology, science. I'm not for renunciation; I'm for rejoicing. I want people to live in all dimensions as richly as possible. last205
It is an old logical strategy to describe, to destroy, to criticize your enemy, that first you impose a certain doctrine on him which is not really representative of the personit may be similar. So first you impose a similar doctrine on the person's name, knowing perfectly the loopholes because you are imposing the doctrine, and then criticize it. Then whosoever reads your book will find your criticism is perfectly right. This has happened to me, that's why I know.
One of the great Hindu monks, Karpatri, has written a whole book against me; and when I saw it I wondered how he managed. Statements that I have never made he makes in my name, and then criticizes them. Now, anybody reading his book will think that he has finished me completely. He has not even touched me.
His secretary has written the introduction to the book, and seems to be an intelligent man because in that introduction he says, "We are obliged to Osho because he created this opportunity and the challenge for all those who think to reconsider everything and not just to accept anything without reconsidering it."
The secretary is a follower of Karpatri, so he thanks Karpatri for doing a great job in accepting the challenge of Osho and criticizing him. He came personally to give me the book. I looked in it here and there and I asked him, "You are the secretary to Karpatri"he was a Hindu sannyasin himself"Have you not noticed that these statements are not mine? Most probably the book was dictated to you."
He said, "I was afraid that you were going to say that."
I just looked here and there in the book and I told him, "This statement is not mine. Not only is it not mine, it is contrary to me, absolutely against my statements. You are an educated person: how did you allow it to happen? You should have prevented it, because this book is absolutely false and whosoever reads it will have a totally wrong concept of me."
So you cannot trust these people ignor20
Once I happened to stay in Allahabad. I was attending a Hindu world conference. Somebody by mistake had invited me thinking that I was a Hindu. They found out, but it was too late. By that time I had disturbed everything that they were planning: how to convert the whole world into Hinduism.
I was staying with hundreds of other guests in tents by the side of the Ganges, a beautiful place they had chosen for the conference. In those tents at least five incarnations of God were present! In India it is so easy, nobody can object. You can declare yourself an incarnation of God. About that India is very nice. Who cares? Who bothers? It is your business: if you think you are an incarnation of God, good; be an incarnation of God. You are not doing any harm to anybody. person02
I used to live in a town where a man was very well known, almost as a saint, and many people had told me, "He is so humble!" Finally the man came to see me; he touched my feet and he said, "I am just dust underneath your feet!"
I looked at himhis eyes were saying something else, his nose was saying something elseso I said, "I can see you are absolutely right: you are just dust underneath my feet!"
He said, "What?!" He became very angry.
I said, "But I am simply agreeing with you! I have not said anything of my own! You started it and I have simply agreed with you, so why are you getting irritated?"
I told him, "Now close your eyes and sit silently and see the point! This is just another way of your ego trying to fulfill itself. The ego is there; now it is upside-down, doing sirshasana, the headstand. But it is the same ego; now it is pretending to be humble." ultima11
All the religions have exploited your hidden desires.
I was participating in a religious conference in Prayag. I heard one shankaracharya speaking to thousands of people, saying, "If you give one rupee in donation, in the other world you will get one thousand rupees." A good bargain! Good business! But all Hindu scriptures are full of such promises"Give a little here and you will get much as a reward in heaven."
This is not trust. This is not getting rid of your mad desire for possessions. Here, you are giving one rupeepeople will see: this man is a very religious man, he gave one rupee to a beggar. But they don't know his hidden desire. He is giving it as a guarantee so that he can get one thousand rupees after death. He is depositing in God's bank. But the interest rate seems to be absolutely absurd!
People give just a little to make sure that in the other world they will get much. And in this world, they will get recognition, respectability; people will think of them as religious people
This is one of the principles I insist on most: that each act comes with either its reward or with its punishment. There is no need of any God who is twenty-four hours noting things into his books about millions of people of this earth
A man came to me, saying, "I want to learn to meditate."
He was a sannyasin, an old-fashioned sannyasin. So I said, "Goodcome to the morning meditation."
He said, "That is a little difficult."
I said, "Why, what's difficult about it?"
He said, "The difficulty is, I cannot come without this man who has come with me, because he keeps the money, I don't touch money. He has to go somewhere else in the morning, so I won't be able to come tomorrow morning."
This is just hilarious! If you need money, what difference does it make whether it is in your pocket or in someone else's? And this becomes another bondagethe one who keeps the money in his pocket is better off than you, at least he can go wherever he wants. It is a peculiar situation: unless this man comes along, you cannot come because you need to have money for the taxibut you don't touch money! So you are having this man sin for you? Commit your own sins. This is great funyou will ride in the taxi and he will go to hell for it! Have a little compassion for him. This is the great connection of the worldly and the yogi!
All your renunciates live bound to worldly people. And your worldly people also live bound to renunciates, because they touch the feet of the renunciates thinking, "Today I am not a renunciate, but at least I touch the feet of one. I get the satisfaction of having done something! If not today, then tomorrow I too will become a renunciate. But right now I worship him." mahag108
I have been moving around all kinds of renunciates. Once I was in Rishikesh in the Himalayas and I was sitting under a tree, a very beautiful tree. It was a hot, sunny afternoon, and the tree was so cool, the shadow of it, that although I had to go I lingered a little longer there.
One old Hindu monk came and said, "What are you doing here, under my tree?"
I said, "Your tree? You have renounced the whole world and this tree is yours? I don't see your signboard or
. How can you prove this tree is yours?"
He said, "There is no need to prove it; everybody around here knows. For thirty years I have been sitting underneath it."
I said, "You may have been sitting for thirty years, the tree has been here even before that; now I am sitting under it and the tree will remain. The tree has no concern with you or me; the tree has no idea who is its owner. You just get lost!"
He said, "What are you saying? You have been here for just a few hours and you become the possessor, and I have been here for thirty years."
I said, "I am not going to possess the tree, I will be moving soon; but not in this way. You will have to apologize to the tree. You have not purchased it, you have not planted it, you have not watered it. On what grounds have you become its possessor?just because you have been here for thirty years bothering the tree day and night?
"You owe something to the tree, the tree owes nothing to you. The tree has been kind to you, and you have become the possessor of it! And this 'possessing' is what you had left behind. Nothing has been left behind.
"You are even ready, right now, here, to fight with me. Thirty years before you would have been fighting for a house, for a small piece of land: 'This is my wife, this is my house, this is my religion, this is my country
"Now all that has become concentrated on this poor tree. Your whole possessiveness has become concentrated on this poor tree. It does not matter whether you possess a whole kingdom or just a small tree; possessiveness has nothing to do with quantity, it is an attitude." misery22
Strangely, it happened that I was staying in a rest house with a shankaracharya. And I told him, "Celibacy is an absolutely unnatural idea. Only an impotent person can be celibate. If you are potent then you cannot be celibate. You tell me what you are, potent or impotent?"
He said, "I am celibate."
I said, "Then I will take you to the hospital this very moment."
He said, "You seem to be a strange man. It is a question of ideology. Where does the hospital come into it?"
I said, "It is not a question of ideology. Do you know how your sexual energy is created? Do you have any scripture in which it is described? Do you have any control over itnot to create it, to prevent it? You don't have any control over it, just as you don't have any control over your blood, you don't have any control over your hair. Your organism has not left anything essential in the hands of your mind. And celibacy is part of your organismthe most important part. Biology cannot leave it in your hands."
He said, "I don't want to be in unnecessary trouble."
I said, "Trouble or not, I can bring a doctor here."
He said, "But I don't want to argue with you."
I said, "You are arguing, because you are saying that you are celibate."
Not a single religious personthere are thousands of monks: Catholic, Hindu, Buddhist, Jainanot a single monk has been to the people who can check whether he is celibate or not. But this ideal of celibacy has been created by very good people. They have not committed any crimeMahavira or Gautam Buddha. They have not committed any crime, but they have created something which goes on creating immense crime. hari14
I have seen many saints, and I have been looking into the lives of your past saints. Ninety-nine out of a hundred of them are simply abnormalneurotic or even psychotic. But they were respectedand they were respected for their misery, remember. The more misery they lived through, the more they were respected. There have been saints who would beat their body with a whip every day in the morning, and people would gather to see this great austerity, asceticism, penance. And the greatest was one who would have wounds all over his bodyand these people were thought to be saints!
There have been saints who have destroyed their eyes, because it is because of the eyes that one becomes aware of beauty, and lust arises. And they were respected because they had destroyed their eyes. God had given them eyes to see the beauty of existence; they became blind by their own decision.
There have been saints who cut their genital organs. And they were respected very much, tremendously, for the simple reason that they had been self-destructive, violent with themselves. These people were psychologically ill.
There have been saints who have been worshipped because they were capable of fasting for long periods, were experts in fasting. It is a certain expertise, you need a little training. Not much intelligence is needed; the training is very ordinary and any stupid person can go through it and learn it. You just have to be able to enjoy sufferingand only the ill person enjoys suffering
But these things simply created miserable people and a miserable society. Look into your misery and you will find certain fundamental things are there. One: it gives you respect. People feel more friendly towards you, more sympathetic. You will have more friends if you are miserable. This is a very strange world, something is fundamentally wrong with it. It should not be so, the happy person should have more friends. But become happy and people become jealous of you, they are no more friendly. They feel cheated; you have something that is not available to them. Why are you happy? So we have learned down the ages a subtle mechanism: to repress happiness and to express misery. It has become our second nature. wisdom20
In the East there are many pathological people who are thought to be mahatmas. And in the West many real mystical people are put into mad asylums because they are thought to be pathological. Both attitudes are wrong. That's why I say this matter of spiritual experience is a delicate one. In the West there are many mystical people who are in the hospitals being treated, being given electric shocks, insulin shocks, because it is thought that they are hysterical
This matter is delicate. If Ramakrishna had been in the West he would have been treated. And they have devised such strong methods to treat people that there is every possibility that they would have made Ramakrishna normal. But that would have been a great misfortune.
In the East just the reverse is happening. I have come across many people. Sometimes they would be brought to me with the idea that I would recognise their state. But I saw that they were just hysterical people; this was just hysteria and nothing else. They were neurotic; they needed some therapy. They had fallen below the normal. But to fall below the normal or to go above the normal sometimes looks alike. Only a Master can be decisive about it, otherwise it is very difficult to decide what is what. But there are a few things which can be given to you as indications. sufis215
I have known many mahatmas in this country, respected by the masses like anything. I have been very intimate with these people, and in their privacy they have opened their hearts to me. They are more ugly than you will find the ordinary people.
I used to visit prisoners, to teach them how to meditate, and my observation was
. I was surprised in the beginning that prisonerseven those who have been sentenced for their whole livesare far more innocent than your saints, are far better people than your saints, far simpler, far more innocent. Your saints are cunning, clever, and your saints have only one quality: that they are able to repress themselves. dh1008
You ask me: Do you really mean your criticism of saints like Muktananda, Nityananda?
I really mean it!
Muktananda is a very ordinary person; I have met him. I was passing by his ashram and his disciples invited me, just for a few minutes' stay, to take a cup of tea. So I said, "Okay."
The man was so flat, just like a flat tire, nothing in him, nothing of any worth, not even junk. And it was not only apparent to me: one of my disciples, a woman follower, Nirmala Srivastava, was with meeven she could see, even she proved to be far more intelligent than Muktananda. We stayed only fifteen minutes; it was a sheer wastage of time. And the moment our car moved away, Nirmala told me, "This man is absolutely common, very ordinary. Why did you waste your time?even fifteen minutes is an unnecessary wastage!"
I looked at her, and immediately I knew that some idea had entered into her headand it had entered. The idea was: "If such a fool like Muktananda can become a saint, then why can't I become a saint?" And the idea worked out well. Now Nirmala Srivastava is a great saint, is traveling around the world, having many devotees. That day it transpired, looking at Muktananda. Now she is 'Her Holiness, the World MotherlagajjananiMataji, Nirmalaji Deviji Srivastavaji.' Now she has many followers, doing the same thing that Muktananda is doingraising people's kundalini. Once she could see that this fool can raise people's kundalini, then "Why can't I raise it?" And she is certainly far more intelligent than Muktananda, far more capable, far more skillful, far more intellectual. Muktananda is not a saint.
But this has not happened only once. ultima15
I have known people
for example Muktananda's master, Nityananda. He could not do anything other than lie down flat because his belly was so big; and to carry it here and there, it was such a heavy load a crane must have been needed! So he used to just lie down flat; and when I saw him, I could not believe my eyes. His belly was so bigalmost like a mountainwith a small head on this side, and two small legs joined on the other side.
I inquired of the man who had taken me therehe was a minister in Maharashtra. He was Nityananda's follower and he was insisting that I see his master, so I agreed. I said, "Okay, I am going that way. His ashram is just on the way, thirty miles from Bombay. So I will stop there; I would love to see him for a few minutes."
I asked him, "Just tell me one thing: whether Nityananda has this belly or the belly has Nityananda?because the belly is so big and Nityananda is so small, almost negligible! The belly is everything."
And I said to him, "People who go to climb Mt. Everest, Edmund Hillary and others, unnecessarily waste their time there. They can just come here and climb on Nityananda's belly. And keep a photographer herewhoever climbs first will become an historical figure, because it seems to be very slippery!"
He was continuously polished, massagedoil was poured on him. And those who were his worshippers were massaging him. Nobody even knew how to massage
All the mahatmas in India have big bellies and they are teaching people, "Don't eat with taste." And they themselves
I said, "Where does this belly come from? Stand up! Show your belly to the whole people. You are eating too much and the country is hungry. And I know that because of this belly you cannot make love to a woman. So now you are teaching everybody not to make love to any woman. It is because of this belly, not because of your religion." Such bellies I have seen, you would not believe it
One very famous mahatma, Shivananda, who had many followers in the West, used to be a doctor. And that a doctor should do such stupid things to himself makes it more difficult to understand. He was eating so much that he could not walk without two persons holding his hands. He even could not raise his hand. His hand was so heavy, so fat, that one person would take one hand, another person would take his other hand and then the small walk would be done.
And he was telling people, "You have to follow the five great principles of Hinduism. The first is aswad, no taste."
What happened to this man? And he was a doctor! I told him, when I went to Rishikesh and saw him, I told him, "What kind of doctor are you? It seems your certificate is bogus. You can't even take care of your body; you have become a monster. You cannot raise your own hand, it has become so heavy."
Everything was out of proportion: a big belly, big fat hands, the legs elephant legs, and this person is teaching the whole world, "You are not the body, you are the soul." And who are these monsters? Just bodies, with no soul at all. I can't see any space in them; they are so filled up with junk that I don't think they can have a soul also. gdead04
I used to know Swami Prabhupada, who created the movement of Hare Krishna. He was one of the greatest idiots, and had a great talent for attracting idiots. If you want to find a gathering of idiots you can find it in the Hare Krishna movement
I have criticized Krishna. That's why they are angry. Prabhupada was very angry, because I had called him a dodo. But he was a dodo.
He was teaching those people celibacy which necessarily brings sexual perversion. He was teaching these people begging. He was teaching these people that you need not do anything except repeat continuously "Hare Krishna, Hare Rama".
This is a sure way of destroying anybody's intelligence. These are the methods of programming.
Now if somebody thinks that this is enough to transform your consciousness, that whatever you are doing you go on chanting inside, loudly or silently, "Hare Krishna, Hare Rama", dancing in the street, "Hare Krishna, Hare Rama"because only these two words will be continuously hammered. All your subtle cells, your whole system of mind, will be spoiled. It is not made only for two words. It will not be used, and unused those delicate cells start dying.
So first the idiots get attracted, and if by chance somebody has some little intelligence, then these methods will destroy it.
These people are continuously chantingnot knowing that repetition of a single word or a single mantra is going to kill your intelligence.
Intelligence needs to be sharpened in new areas, new dimensions. It has to move into the unknown. "Hare Krishna, Hare Rama"it becomes stuck there.
Prabhupada was angry because he could not answer my criticism of Krishna. If he was honest, and if these people are honestthis Goswami*then they will call Shri Krishna the greatest scoundrel ever. He forcibly collected sixteen thousand women as his wives, without marrying themand they were all married, they had children, they had husbands
but he was powerful, fascist. Any woman he liked was immediately taken to his palace, without any consideration of what will happen to the children. Sixteen thousand women! No other man in the whole of history has been so ugly. transm45
*Note: Shrivasti Goswami: leader of the Hare Krishna movement at the time of speaking
I don't think there is any need for physical immortality. And your soul is immortal! Search for that rather than trying to search for physical immortality. But there are fools who go on thinking in these ways.
Sri Aurobindo's philosophy became world famous for the simple reason that he was saying to his disciples that physical immortality is possible. And the day he died, the disciples could not believe it. In fact, one of my friends who was in the ashram, told me later on that for three days it was kept secret that Sri Aurobindo had died, because it was unbelievable. When the Mother was asked, she said "He has gone into a deep samadhi. It is not death. How can he die? He is physically immortal." But after three days when the body started stinking, they had to bury him.
Then they started believing that the Mother was immortal. Then one day the Mother died. Now those fools are believing that they have both gone to the other world to bring back some more secrets and that they will come soon, they will be back. They are hoping that they will be back with the secrets of physical immortality!
The immortality of the soul is enough. There is no need for your body's immortality. In fact seventy years is enoughenough to enjoy, enough to suffer, enough to understand, enough to misunderstand. In fact whatsoever you want to do, seventy years is enough. And if you really go on doing things totally, within seventy years you will be capable of seeing the whole absurdity of being in the body. You will not ask for an immortal body, you will ask how to get rid of this whole business of being born and dying again and again and again, how to get rid of the wheel of life and death.
Another maxim of Murphy: Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. theolo05
One yoga teacher, Iyengar, in Poona, has given an interview to some journalists, and they asked him about me
. He used to come to listen to my lectures in those old days when they did not exactly understand my meaning.
He used to come to my meditation campsthere are here witnesses for itand he wanted me to do some yoga exercises, because I was traveling continually, and that would have an adverse effect on my body.
I said, "I would rather have that adverse effect than learn some stupid distortions of the body. And moreover, I remember perfectly how you exploit people."
He was teaching J. Krishnamurti a few yoga postures to help him overcome his forty years' migraines. Now, a yoga teacher is a professional; all that he teaches you is certain exercises of the body. But when he wrote his book on yoga, on the flap paper he wrote, "I am the guru of J. Krishnamurti."
I told him, "I don't want such exploitation. `Guru of J. Krishnamurti'just because you have taught him a few exercises? Then any idiot who can teach a few exercises, then any doctor who treats you with medicine, then any psychiatrist, any psychoanalyst, can claim to be your guru.
"I don't want to be included in your disciples. I am nobody's disciple. Hence, I have to refuse your offer for teaching me some exercises. I don't need them." poetry02
Once a follower of Radhaswami, a small sect which is confined to an area near Agra, came to see me. I was in Agra. He was some kind of a priest, and he said, "Do you know?our master has said there are fourteen planes of existence."
I said, "Just fourteen?"
He said, "What do you mean, 'Just fourteen?' Are there more?"
I said, "Certainly."
He said, "But our master has said there are only fourteen. Mohammed has reached only up to the third," he saidhe had brought a map"Kabir and Nanak have reached up to the fifth. And Mahavira and Buddha up to the seventh," and so on, so forth. But there has never been another who has reached up to the fourteenth except his so-called master.
I said, "I know your master. I have seen him struggling in the fourteenth. He is trying hard, but he cannot get out of it. I know it because I exist at the fifteenth. There are fifteen planes of existence."
He said, "But you are the first man
." And he was much impressed. When he was leaving he touched my feet and he said, "You have revealed a new secret."
I said, "Don't be foolish. I was just joking! There are only two categories of people: the people who are not aware and the people who are aware. The people who are aware have no hierarchy that one is more aware than the other, that somebody is at the fifth, somebody at the seventh, somebody at the ninth, somebody at the fourteenth. There is no higher and lower in awareness. Awareness is simply awareness."
But he was not much interested in that. He was more interested in my being on the fifteenth plane.
People are interested in religious fictions.
Don't waste your time in occultism, unless you are interested in novels, fictions. Then it is okay, then there is no problem
Once I went to address a conference of theosophists. Now, theosophists are people who will believe any bullshitany! The more shitty it is, the more believable. So I just played a joke on them. I simply invented something; I invented a society called "Sitnalta." They were all dozing, they became alert. "Sitnalta?" I made the word by just reading "Atlantis" backwards. And then I told them, "This knowledge comes from Atlantis, the continent that disappeared in the Atlantic ocean."
And then I talked about it: "There are really not seven chakras but seventeen. That great ancient esoteric knowledge is lost, but a society of enlightened masters still exists, and it still works. It is a very very esoteric society, very few people are allowed to have any contact with it; its knowledge is kept utterly secret."
And I talked all kinds of nonsense that I could manage. And then the president of the society said, "I have heard about this society." Now it was my turn to be surprised. And about whatsoever I had said, he said that it was the first time that the knowledge of this secret society had been revealed so exactly.
And then letters started coming to me. One man even wrote saying, "I thank you very much for introducing this inner esoteric circle to the theosophists, because I am a member of the society, and I can vouch that whatsoever you have said is absolutely true."
There are people like these who are just waiting to believe in anything, because the more nonsensical a belief is, the more important it appears to be. The more absurd it is, the more believablebecause if something is logical, then there is no question of believing in it. wisdom03