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LOVLEEN.
How many people have actually gone into making you and why is that
one actually loves being in your company?
KIRAN.
I think two persons have gone totally into making me, my mother
and my father, because they were my closest friends. The two whom
I have respected the most, trusted the most, loved the most. These
are the two who went into making me as a child. As an adult, what
went into making me were my books.
LOVLEEN.
When you entered adolescence, as I understand, you were into
reading a lot more. What kind of philosophy, who are the authors
that influenced you in any way, sharpened your sensitivity, or
gave a different dimension to your life.
KIRAN.
Home was always my training ground, real training ground. Daddy
was the reader in the house who would share. He was a very
positive thinking reader, so the development of a positive
attitude was instilled by him and the qualities of hard work and
the qualities of discipline were being shared by both, Mummy and
Daddy. But that inspiration was also directing me to read for
myself. I would read the right magazine, the right editorials in
the newspapers, the right article in that magazine, The right
books, the right chapters in that booKiran. I could straightaway
go to what I wanted out of the magazine and I have probably never
read a complete magazine. I would never read novels that would
dislodge me emotionally, let me lose my control and my balance or
tantalize me. I have never spent, wasted a minute on these gossips
in the magazines or anything which would not inspire me. I was
very selective on what I read. Does it inspire me, does it build
me, does it make me, does it enhance me, does it evolve me, does
it make me grow, does it educate me, does it make me think better
for myself. Does it correct me, does it help me introspect, does
it modify me. I was open and I continue to be open to any reading
that helps me grow. Correct, guide, learn, inspire, motivate,
educate - all that. Its not that I didn't lose my way, it doesn't
mean that I didn't make mistakes. I also lost my way, I also
diverted but that really initially could come back to say
"you did lose your direction, you did lose your way, that
wasn't your way, that's not what you were built for" with the
result that I could self correct, subsequently the habit of
self-building.
LOVLEEN.
When you say you read the right kind of books, the right kind of
chapters, how did you know that u have to open this book and go to
chapter twelve for example?
KIRAN.
It's an amazing question! My taste, my likings had already been
sharpened towards what is worthwhile, what is value based, which
are the universal principles of living, the universal principles
of basic truths - if you hurt someone, you get hurt, that's the
basic truth, if you do something wrong, your conscience tells you.
It's basic truth. If you waste time, you get wasted, you are
disciplined, you achieve more, and it's the basic truth. So these
were already my tastes, so therefore I was already sifting through
subconsciously whether it is matching my taste. I have a taste for
purity. Sometimes the tastes are innate and I think my innate
tastes were 100% matching with what my parents were giving me. So
it was, without conflict, getting reinforced.
LOVLEEN.
Therefore it was very harmonious...?
KIRAN.
Very harmonious! For example, sacrifice was meeting my taste;
story of Mahatma Gandhi, Vivekanand, Aurobindo or Rama Krishna or
anybody who had sacrificed it met my taste because I loved being a
part of that sacrifice. So I think the taste was both inner and
external - it was matching in harmony.
LOVLEEN.
How do you understand sacrifice personally? And what is other than
giving of yourself totally which you do even today at your work
and we all know that but maybe that's not enough for a person like
you? If you had a bigger call, what would that be?
KIRAN.
For me its always choices. If I have given up tennis for the
service, its not sacrificing Tennis - I chose the Indian Police
Service, and I said I don't need to play tennis anymore. Even at
that time I was India's number 1 in Tennis. I could have taken
tennis as a career, gone to Wimbledon to play. I didn't sacrifice
tennis, I chose the Service. I dropped things, sometimes out of
realization and sometimes out of maturity. I continued to grow to
drop things.
LOVLEEN.
When you say, you have reached a stage where you can drop things
it may not be so necessary to have a company either. It's a part
of your evolution but have you really reached a point where you
realize that actually you are your best company?
KIRAN.
Absolutely. I am 100 percent comfortable with myself and the more
time I have the more time I can use. And that's the time I miss, I
don't have so much time to myself when I can quietly be myself. To
me today, work is worship, so I am worshipping through work of
physical kind. The day I can move away from physical Karma I will
move to internal Karma. Saying enough and that I want to get into
myself will probably be selfish at this time. So therefore it's a
very clear choice that wait for a while so do work as worship and
to 100 percent right, for me this is totally another form of
renunciation.
LOVLEEN.
When you say that you have made the choice, is it possible that
actually your work is feeding your internal and making it grow and
a time would come when it will become so ripe that this will
automatically drop like other things in your life like a ripe
fruit from a tree?
KIRAN.
It certainly may and I hope it does. It should drop on its own. At
the moment dying at work with He Ram would be more spiritual than
individualizing it and withdrawing it to myself and being selfish.
LOVLEEN.
But
when the time comes, you actually may not have to make a choice,
it will just happen. So the time may come, when you reach that
point of convergence, when you will be so complete and so full
within yourself, where all your faculties, your complete being is
immersed in bliss, then there is only one choice, of a completely
beautiful life whichever way you may express it.
KIRAN.
It may happen. Each day I am already moving towards that direction
but I restrain myself. It has to be restrained because of other
duties. But I think the day I let go, if that could then move much
faster. At the moment I am getting richer and richer. I have so
little time so I am giving every moment to it, even to the extent
that I speak fast to save time and say more. (Laughs)
LOVLEEN.
Talking
about various external influences in your life you talked about
Mahatma Gandhi, Vivekanand etc. I'd like to know in what way did
Osho influence you?
KIRAN.
In a subtle way, a stage comes when it all gets converged and you
don't know what really helped you, reading Vedanta or reading Osho
or others. It's like a Sagar inside and when you are thirsty you
drink a glass of water and another glass of water and you do not
know which glass of water actually quenched the most. But they
were needed at different time; Osho was another glass of water. He
is a fresh glass of water for me on many days in my mornings.
There were many Sundays when in the evening I walked, the best
evening on a Sunday was to walk with his discourse. And I did it,
I finished Jap Jee, Ek Naam Satnaam and I would come back home
richer by what I had heard. It's all getting converged. It's like
getting dipped in an ocean several times but one cannot say where
one got wet more. For me any walk in the evening means a walk with
his discourse.
LOVLEEN.
Many
people say that Osho was ahead of his times. How will you comment
on this?
KIRAN.
He was. He was a revolutionary of sorts, undoubtedly. He was a
trailblazer, amazing trailblazer. I think he was a total innovator
of that time, It's after him that we started to get those kinds of
books, discourses. The literature that Osho has left is
unparalleled. So he certainly was a trailblazer and I think he
carved highways out of these mountains. We may have lanes and
by-lanes but he carved highways rather freeways of literature,
philosophy, knowledge and understanding. The more you listen to
him, the more you want to listen to him. The more you read him,
the more you want to read him.
LOVLEEN.
Lots
of people say he contradicts himself? Do you find any
contradictions in his discourses?
KIRAN.
I don't think he contradicts; he explains and all the
contradiction is situational. If you listen to him and understand
him in the context of what he is speaking, that's it. I am never
looking for him to find an area of disagreement but looking up to
him to educate and whatever has gone with my taste has stayed with
me and what I haven't understood is maybe I am not as evolved. So
I need to go back and read it again. You need to evolve to
understand it more and more. Even if there is contradiction you
have to understand in the context of what is he saying.
LOVLEEN.
Osho
always lived in present. He was always living moment to moment.
Kiran, for you it is work, work and more worKiran. Do you think
it's a balanced life or within your spectrum of work, you are
doing the balancing act?
KIRAN.
My work is not work, it is creativity. I don't work, I only goad
into creativity. My everything is creativity and therefore I am
enjoying it. I am writing a lot, it's a creative expression, I go
and teach - it's a creative expression and it's joyful. I go to
walk; it's a creative walk into nature. I listen to discourse, its
not work but I am learning and therefore I do as much as I can
only because its creativity. When I work in the police, its
creative, because its helpful, its problem solving, its
innovation, its also experimentation, its touching people, its
making the difference - its helluva lot of things. If you go back
to my prison work, it was molding peoples' lives; I am training
students, its molding students, thinking, and its addressing
mindsets. I think its remarkable, its amazing because when I got
the Joseph Boyce award…it was for creativity. Germans give this
award for creativity. Only three people have received this award.
It was given to me for social sculpting. When you are addressing
peoples' mind, giving them the right ideas, motivating them - this
is where you are sculpting new areas of the human mind. So I think
there is not a dull moment in my day. There is no repetition. When
your work gives you creative happiness that is grace. And once you
have recognized that grace you want to continue it.
LOVLEEN.
Tell
us about your relationship with nature.
KIRAN.
Well, the association started since the day one of my life.
Because Mummy, Daddy were on the Tennis court so I have grown on
the green grass. So daddy was great lover of Tennis and mummy
would always be a great companion. Till I was a toddler. I would
roll on the court, the moment I could hold a racquet we were
playing on the lawns. Thereafter it was six hours in school; it
was four hours on the court. We went indoors only to sleep. In
Amritsar we would sleep on the rooftop because there was no air
conditioner or air coolers. We could see the moon, we could see
the sky, I would sprinkle water on my bed and sleep on the cool
bed just under the sky. All through my teenage till the age of 20
we would sleep under the sky till I joined the Service. The
greatest gift that I have now is the walk in the nature -
remarkable.
LOVLEEN.
Then
you must have talked to the stars?
KIRAN.
How did you know? (Laughs) It is so personal. I used to speak to
the Dhruv Tara - the star. I would ask it questions about my
success, my exams, my matches. It was lovely. I used to count the
seven stars and someone told me that if I count them for 40 days
without a break, my wishes will be fulfilled. So nature was always
a great companion to me.
LOVLEEN.
Who according to you is a criminal?
KIRAN.
Normally who is determined to kill, not someone who did it due to
circumstances but one who enjoys killing is a criminal. Who
knowingly kills, a sick man is a criminal according to me. One who
after killing says, "Hahaha… I have killed and I am happy!
One who drinks the blood of others to quench his thrust is
according to me a criminal. Not anybody short of that. To me a
vampire, a Dracula is a Criminal. People who consider themselves
Jehadis are criminals, who blast a bus full of innocent people and
in the process they say they have pleased their ideology. This is
the real category of criminals. Terrorists of this kind who kill
to acquire power, to me are criminals, to name a few.
LOVLEEN.
Like
Hitler?
KIRAN.
Absolutely - like Hitler.
LOVLEEN.
Should
we not look into society as a whole? It plays an important role in
bringing up criminals.
KIRAN.
There is a difference between offenders and criminals. Majority of
prisoners are offenders and not criminals. Criminals are a very
small minority. Majority of people housed in the prisons are
offenders, they are not criminals. That's why they change very
fast. The hardest group of rehabilitation are the criminals and
they are a very small minority. If you ask me it would be probably
1 percent. This one- percent can play havoc that's why America
hangs them. Hitler for instance wanted to annihilate the whole
world's Jewish population and to capture the entire world. That is
criminal.
LOVLEEN.
What is our Govt. doing in this regard? How does it plan to
transform the criminals?
KIRAN.
They need much more intensive rehabilitation. For criminals you
need much creative surgery of the mind. Therefore they need a
longer stay in the prison; a very intensive programme and they
should not be released till a team of psychologists clears them.
Even if it takes whole life, they should not be released because
they are mad men.
LOVLEEN.
Tell us about one project close to your heart, The India Vision
Foundation. What is the trust doing?
KIRAN.
India Vision started on the right platform. It's out of the birth
of Magsasay award. It was a major thing, the Magsasay award,
something which was gifted to me, a major gift because it made my
work public and brought me a lot of International recognition. It
put my work on a very high pedestal to be seen and also brought in
a lot of acceptance of the work for Kiran. So at the time of the
acceptance of the award when I went there I had already founded
the India Vision and in my acceptance speech I said that this work
shall be carried on by India Vision. India Vision had four five
things which have been gone all along me in my life, Prison
Reform, crime prevention, women empowerment, sports promotion and
mental disability because that is the strength of my younger
sister who is one of the best psychological consultants today
country has in the field of mental disability. All the things are
running simultaneously and doing well. It is expanding.
LOVLEEN.
Tell us about your writing.
KIRAN.
I write a weekly column for Punjab KesarL. This is translated into
HindL. Then I write a fortnightly column for The Times of India
and whatever I write for the two newspapers goes into some highly
circulated Magazines and a Tamil newspaper too. I am going to
write a monthly piece for Dainik Bhaskar that will appear on
Sunday. Another piece I am writing for a magazine, which will
again be a monthly. When you write, articles grow on your mind. It
is produced and not written. An idea suddenly comes up and I
decide I am going to write about this. Its like pregnancy, every
minute it grows. Yes, I write only what fascinates me, which
actually motivates me. The latest piece I wrote for Punjab Kesari
is about a letter I received from a girl who studies in 12th
standard. She asks me to save her since she wants to study and
does not want to marry. I have written about it and its coming as
it is. What is the use of the TV channels DD1 and DD2 if it can't
teach them their rights, what's the use of Panchayats if they
cannot make sure these girls study and not married prematurely,
what's the use of school teachers if they cannot speak to the
parents and pursue these things.
LOVLEEN.
Kiran, who do you think is an Oshoite?
KIRAN.
Oshoite is somebody who is very rich within, rich in internal
content, and settled, equanimous and full of joy. And through any
presence spreads joy, touches joy, and spreads radiance through
the internal fulfillment. One who is internally fulfilled is an
Oshoite. Who is happy and spreads and aura of Joy and happiness
around him, I think is an Oshoite.
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